Jaguar XE Ramblings

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno) 01/01/2015 at 15:32 • Filed to: None

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The XE's tail lights look to be calm, cool, and collected, man.

Also, holy shit are the tail lights big enough? They could have stopped them before they went on to the trunk lid and they would've been perfect. Other than that little quibble, it is a very pretty car.

And I didn't know this, but it looks like Jaguar is offering the XE with cloth interior! As a person who dislikes leather, this makes me very happy that a luxury automaker is offering cloth. It'll probably end up being a Europe-only option though.

dogisbadob > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 15:35

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it's missing something

Svend > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 15:47

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I would like something like this on it.

From the 2001 Jaguar R Coupe concept.

CB > dogisbadob 01/01/2015 at 15:47

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From this angle, it looks like a 3-series.

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 15:49

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Cloth?

No. You cannot compete against the 3 series with cloth. That's like bringing a fork to a sword fight. Cloth has no place even as an option on a luxury car. That and the rear are serious missteps I hope get corrected with the refresh a few years down the road.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Svend 01/01/2015 at 15:49

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That would actually be pretty cool. Put in that blank space of metal on the vent right before the door.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PS9 01/01/2015 at 15:51

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Leather is still an option, and cloth is a million times better than BMW's stupid Sensatec vinyl leatherette crap. If there's one thing worse than leather, it's fake leather.

dogisbadob > CB 01/01/2015 at 15:53

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they could distinguish themselves a bit with a hood ornament :)

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 15:56

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Doesn't matter. Cloth is what you got with the car you used to drive, and getting a luxury product is supposed to mean leaving that all behind. A premium car should have a premium interior, period. A low-rent option like cloth has no place being offered on a Jag.

m-b-w loves his SUBAROO > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 15:56

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Hate to break it to you, but looking at the US site, it looks like the base model XE comes with fake leather called Luxtec.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PS9 01/01/2015 at 15:59

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Okay, that's great. Some people prefer cloth because that shit doesn't get hot in the summer and cold in the winter and doesn't start to look tatty in 5 years. I don't care how well you take care of leather it starts to stretch out and wrinkle and look bad after a while. I'd happily drive a premium car with a cloth interior. Leather doesn't automatically mean premium.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > m-b-w loves his SUBAROO 01/01/2015 at 16:00

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Oh god no! Dammit Jaguar I had faith in you.

I wonder why there's a photo on the US site of a model with cloth interior then.

SwissTony > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:01

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That first rear quarter shot made me think this is some kind of a new Audi.

While I love the F-type, I still reminisce about Jaguars that looked like Jaguars:

Svend > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:02

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Exactly what I was thinking fella.

PS9 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:10

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A bad leather interior might not mean premium, but cloth never will be, no matter how well it's done, no matter what material you're using (maybe alcantera, but you're not going to find an option for an all-alcantera interior on a non-six figure car).

There's a reason why you'd be hard pressed to find an all cloth interior on a non-oddball luxury car, and it's for the same reason leather interior upgrades fetch a hefty premium for non-luxury branded cars; leather = premium in the mind of consumers of luxury products. I would expect a cloth option on a near luxury brand like Buick or Acura, but not on a top tier brand building a competitor to the market segment leader, and definitely not when introducing a key product in their line-up.

m-b-w loves his SUBAROO > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:11

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I strongly question how much time they have left in America.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > m-b-w loves his SUBAROO 01/01/2015 at 16:18

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I actually see quite a few XFs around, but that's about it. Their lineup is handsome, but certainly getting a bit up there in age. Which is never good in the luxury segment.

m-b-w loves his SUBAROO > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:20

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The most common Jaguar I've seen is an XJ with a Carmax sticker on the back.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:38

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A. I don't hate the taillights as much as some people, but they could be a little smaller. Still, if someone rear ends you, they have no excuse and you can sue the shit out of them.

B. No. Luxury cars should not have cloth seats. Don't ask me why, but for me, that would be like it coming with manual windows or seats. Fake leather isn't ideal, but it's better than cloth.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/01/2015 at 16:41

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Well someone better start complaining to BMW, becuse they're still offering manual seats on a $32000 car.

And fake leather is terrible. All the drawbacks of leather without the leather smell.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 16:41

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BMW: Put some fucking power seats in the car.

Justin T. Westbrook > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 17:32

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"They could have stopped them before they went on to the trunk lid and they would've been perfect"

I'm not so sure.

It's rough, but you get the idea. From Jaaaag to GM product in one rough photoshop.

Variance > PS9 01/01/2015 at 17:33

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You do realize that the base/standard interior in Europe on the 1-series, 2-series, 3-series, and, I believe, the 4-series is cloth, right? Also, partial cloth is an optional interior choice in the M3 and M4 in all markets. Basically the only market in which the premium German brands offer leather (real or synthetic) as the base trim level on their volume models is the USA. My understanding is that this is primarily due to people like yourself that believe that a premium interior requires leather.

Hell, one of the reasons that I did not pick up an M235i to replace my aging E36 DD/beater is because the Alcantara & Hexagon cloth interior is not available in the US.

Variance > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 01/01/2015 at 17:40

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See my reply to PS9 above. The US is the only market where we're stuck with shitty fake leather instead of cloth. I like high-quality authentic leather just as much as the next person, but a well-executed cloth interior is far superior to fake leather in wear resistance and overall longevity, breatheability and comfort (doesn't get as hot in the sun, and promotes airflow to prevent back sweating), and in the case of a car with some amount of sporting pretention, grip.

PS9 > Variance 01/01/2015 at 18:43

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...in Europe...

Keyword, there. I live in the US where there is no 1-series, and here, it's not acceptable for a luxury car to come with a cloth interior. Thats what the car you use to drive had.

Also, partial cloth is an optional interior choice in the M3 and M4 in all markets.

Another keyword. Full cloth would not be acceptable for a $50k sportscar from a premium brand in the US, another point is that the cloth in question is alcantera, a suede leather substitute.

My understanding is that this is primarily due to people like yourself that believe that a premium interior requires leather.

It's more than that. For 2x the premium over a similar non-luxury offering on the market, the whole car has to be better in obvious, non-trivial ways. It has to be a significant step above what you used to drive. What are you paying all that money for if not that? This is what consumers of luxury products are thinking about when they are considering a purchase. Every non-luxury base model everything in the US comes with cloth. People look to luxury brands to get away from that here, which is why you don't see it on major luxury branded products.

Vicente Esteve > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 01/01/2015 at 20:33

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I think the taillights should be the exact same ones as the F-Type. Those look like a fat copy, also waiting for the manual!

Variance > PS9 01/01/2015 at 21:53

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We may not have the 1er in the US anymore, but we still have the 2, 3, and 4, so my point still stands. You stated that "You cannot compete against the 3-series with cloth", when, in fact, said 3-series has a cloth option available everywhere but the US. The XE will be sold in essentially all the same markets as the 3er; if it were only to be sold in the US, then yes, your point is valid.

Additionally, the partial cloth option in the M3 and M4 actually has no Alcantara; as you can see in the 3rd picture I posted, the side bolsters are leather, while the centers of the seats are woven cloth. Similarly, in the 2nd picture, which depicts the M-sport "hexagon cloth" interior that is standard in the M235i (and available on other models; I believe the picture is from a 3er M-sport), has Alcantara bolsters, with woven cloth centers.

I think that the fundamental issue is that of preconceived notions that consumers develop without actually having any experience. While it is indeed true that cloth interiors are most commonly found on "non-premium" vehicles, there is such a huge difference in quality between the kind of cloth materials used in "premium" brands vs "non-premium"; having been in older BMWs with cloth interiors (my current E36, a 1997 model, has a cloth interior), there is really no comparison to what you would find in, say, a Corolla. A fitting analogy would be household carpeting; cheap, builder-grade carpeting and premium, name-brand carpeting are fundamentally similar in composition, but the quality of the product itself is easily noticeable, in multiple way, by the end consumer. Furniture could be another good analogy.

Similarly, there is a huge difference between the "leatherette" interiors that we receive in the US base models and genuine leather. While they may have a similar appearance at first glance when new, it's quite easy to tell the difference once you actually have to live with it. Having owned and/or driven vehicles with leatherette, leather, and premium cloth interiors, I would take a well-executed premium cloth interior over leatherette any day. While I appreciate a high-quality authentic leather interior just as much as the next person (the seats in my Elise are fantastic), I have yet to experience a leatherette interior that wasn't terrible; the material feels fake, has horrendous wear-resistance, and does not breathe at all.

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that most new-car sales and leases of premium/luxury automobiles are made by consumers with the mindset that you described. While I feel like some these generalizations of what is required of a premium automobile are narrow-minded, I can at least recognize that, as an engineer, my opinions lack authority next to the product planning specialists that make these decisions. I simply find it unfortunate that such decisions limit the variety of product that is even available to me (as I mentioned before, I would LOVE to be able to get an Estoril Blue M235i with the M-Sport interior, but because I'm in the US, I'm limited to black leatherette, or a couple colors of real leather; it's not even an OPTION).

Man, I ended up rambling on a lot more than I had intended. Apologies for the wall of text.